The NFT Gaming Podcast: Featuring Genopets (EP03)

A Genopet is your digital spirit animal encoded with your personality that evolves through your daily activity. Your Genopet will join you as you traverse the Genoverse. Stay active to guide the destiny of your Genopet and unlock your true potential.

In this podcast episode, we interview Ben, the co-founder of Genopets, to explore what it means to own your assets in the metaverse and how Genopets is building the future of move-to-earn gaming. 

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Disclaimer: This transcript was auto-generated using AI-powered software.

Jason: 0:01
I’m Jason with the NFT gaming podcast. Welcome to this episode and a quick reminder, do your own research. This is not financial advice and enjoy the show.

Jacob: 0:12
I always wondered what NFT gaming would look like. And then. One day I got in. Welcome everybody to the NFT gaming podcast, where we are exploring different games that are building this NFT and play to earn movement across lots of different blockchains. This is sponsored by Stocktwits and hosted by the team at Duo the NFT card game here on Cardano I’m Jacob, one of the co-founders of Duo I’m joined by Jason, the CEO and founder of Duo and Jason. These episodes, they just keep getting better and better.

Jason: 1:04
Yeah, I’m discovering that there’s something new about each and every one of these games that I want to dive into. And my. Gamer at heart is like, we don’t have enough time in our company day to play all these games. So we’re just going to have to carve out some more, but today’s episode, I’m really excited for it because it brings in some unique elements that I haven’t seen in any other NFT games so far.

Jacob: 1:28
For sure. One of the big things that this project is highlighting is the idea of what they’re calling not. But move to earn. And I think that that’s a really interesting concept. I’m super excited to hear what they have to say. So today we are going to be talking to Genopets, and we have Ben one of the co-founders of Genopets. Ben, welcome to the show.

Ben: 1:46
Thanks for having me.

Jacob: 1:49
So Ben, tell us a little bit about what it means to move, to earn and what Gino pets is all about.

Ben: 1:56
Absolutely how much time you got, uh,

Jacob: 1:58
We have about 45 minutes.

Ben: 2:00
45 minutes. Let’s try. And, uh, all right. Um, well, uh, from a high level, Genopets is a free to play game. Um, we are moved to earn, I’ll explain that in a second. It’s on mobile. Um, as the game of flight fitness app that blends together, essentially the emotional rewards of playing Tamagotchi and the social fitness tracking struggle using NFTs, um, moved to earn. Essentially just when he saw Axie Infinity and how incredibly, uh, amazing that that rise was. And I was like, wow, they’re finally, you know, instead of sinking thousands of hours into a game, um, as we all have our entire lives and then walking away with it with some vague sense of accomplishment, um, really typically overshadowed by a pretty big amount of regret and wondering what else I could have done with my life. Uh, but now it’s, uh, the idea of that. Uh, I wa at least, and get some cash out of it. That’d be kind of cool some return on the investment of time. So, um, with that kind of also being someone who played a ton of RPGs and real-time strategy games and big StarCraft nerd, um, thinking about how like the hour spent in front of computer and the amount of grinding that we’ve done, um, in our lives, like what if we were to turn, grinding into something that was not beneficial for my body. So I, you know, I love games cause they trained my mind. They make me think about the world in different ways. I’ve learned about, um, the world and how different things can happen. And I learned a lot about economics, uh, from, you know, games like World of Warcraft. Um, but how great would it be if I compare that with being able to actually physically get healthier, um, as well when I’m doing that. So, um, all those kinds of ideas came together to form this, this idea of Genopets. Um, Yeah,

Jason: 3:41
man. I, I was spot on Jacob when I said it was tamagotchi, right? Like this brought back some nostalgic memories on the school bus. A lot of tamagotchi. That was a cool,

Ben: 3:53
yeah. The, you know, tamagotchi it’s been a while they haven’t had an update, uh, since 95. So I figured, you know, that the tamagotchi, uh, of 2022 and, uh, and what that would look like in full 3d cyber punk glory. Um, the, the characters of our childhood. Come back to, uh, to help us out in the crazy modern world. So,

Jacob: 4:14
And tell me a little bit about move to earn and how that mechanic works on the blockchain.

Ben: 4:21
Uh, yeah, totally. So the concept is really simple, right? So, um, you walk around, we use a phone, uh, any pedometer, any phone can, can do this as long as it has a pedometer, a smartphone, and then we track your steps in our game, uh, in particular. What we do is we convert the steps that you take into energy. So energy, you can think of them in our game as essentially action points. Um, so to do all the things that you’re going to want to do in our games, such as battling, crafting, um, evolving and so forth, um, you’re going to need to use energy to do that. Um, so the energy that you accrue you spend in game, um, but then also you can withdraw that energy as key token. Um, so effectively steps, energy. And, um, and so once using in our, in our case, in order to do that, we are also free to play games. So, um, being, we, that’s kind of unusual, it’s very unusual, um, for the web three space, um, NFT gaming as we’ve been conditioned. Now you’re used to spending $2,000, $3,000 dollars up front to start earning money. It’s an investment, you know, very sound argument. Uh, in our case, we really want to make that broad and open to it. So we made it free to play. So, um, in order to earn, however, you, you purchase a habitat. And so we have this concept of the habitat that your pet lives in, and if you have that habitat, then you have the ability to convert the energy you earned by walking around into $KI. Um, and so, um, on, as far as how the blockchain is concerned, um, pretty straight forward. Um, you essentially, we have $KI token, uh, we have our smart contract that will then, um, convert that and then have it in your wallet. We have, um, a bonus around the withdrawal times, um, and effectively from there, once you have $KI also comes back into the game, um, you can use $KI. $KI is essentially, you can think of tiers on chain, um, energy, and then energy is in game energy. So you can. Import your $KI back into the game and use that as energy. So then that way, if you’re tired of walking five miles a day or two miles a day, or you just don’t want to take a little break, but you still want to play the game. That’s the utility of $KI.

Jason: 6:34
Excellent. So I’m thinking already, can I just strap this to my dog? Send it out on a walk and see what happened? Like can my dog earn energy for me?

Ben: 6:44
Uh, sensibly. It could, um, obviously we know someone’s going to try and do that. Um, I guess in this case, namely you, uh, so

Jacob: 6:54
He’s always looking for a way to hack the system,

Jason: 6:57
breaking games since Tamagotchi in 1995,

Ben: 7:00
that’s a, that’s a game in itself. Um, so of course anti-cheat is a really big, um, thing that we’re, we’re looking at. And, uh, presumably with. The way that we’ll be tracking, we’ll be using our, uh, algorithmic and machine learning to understand the cadence and the behavior of step movement, um, and be able to differentiate between, um, different levels of cheating, um, cheating as a whole consists of beyond just cheating. There’s also hacking. Um, so there’s many ways to, um, that we anticipate that people are going to be trying to, to assault the system because you know, it’s free money and if they can figure that out, you know, why. Um, but there are on our end. There’s a lot that we can do as far as, um, detecting behavior patterns that will be useful in doing that.

Jason: 7:50
And I think this is a great point to kind of highlight as you build these NFT games or these web three based games, there is there’s major game design decisions that you have to change or kind of like wrap your head around when you’re coming from. Uh, traditional game or web two based game into this new world. What are some of the design decisions that you’ve been able to take advantage? And you’ve, you’ve kind of stumbled upon as, as you guys started building Genopets.

Ben: 8:21
Oh man. Um, I could talk forever about this so, well, first off I realized I didn’t get to really dive into kind of the core foundation, um, of the game elements. Right? So what is a Genopet pet? The idea of a Genopet is that you’re getting this spirit animal or a digital familiar, and it is a representation of you. So in order to have this spirit animal, you would summon it by creating a short personality test. So this pet is really based on who you are as a person. We really wanted to hone in and get this concept of like the next level of an avatar. And what, what would I be like, um, in the. Um, we have created a procedurally generated, um, system with, um, it’s completely modular and completely customizable. So every pet has eyes, horns, antennas, mains, tails, and wings, and the colors are changeable as well. And they evolve over 12 stages of evolution. Um, Genopets is I sorry, Pokemon or something is like three stages of evolution. They’re preset. In this case, it’s a fully customizable. It’s exactly how you want your pet. Um, so just that vision of what a Genopet would be like. I’ve always just imagined, um, having a little creature as you know, um, what’s it called? Uh, cause at one TV show or everyone’s got their, uh, their little pets running around that are, that are part of them, uh, golden compass. Um, so you know, the, the concept of, uh, so that was that really factored deeply into how we were approaching. Um, NFTs as a whole. And so as far as I know, this is the most functionally complex NFT that I’m aware of. Um, although I’d be happy to hear if there’s any other ones, um, but something that is so dynamic and so functional and so customizable, um, presented a ton of, for first, it was only possible really. Um, as an, as an ownership item with this concept, Um, sots with composability with, um, with updating our metadata and with like, um, just a lot of really fun ways that we can utilize the functions of an NFT to, to create this product that is never has never existed before. So along with that have come just an insane amount of technical challenges and difficulties that required, um, a lot of work around. And, um, for example, um, we. Wanted to we, we built the entire, um, we designed the entire procedural system around that. Um, and then, uh, we originally always wanted to have wings for all the Genopets, but as part of a game design decision, um, I realized halfway through, I was like, you know, it’s kind of not fair or like, wouldn’t it be a lot cooler if you didn’t get your wings until like way later until like stage eight, right. Um, and you kind of have to earn your wings, but of course you can sort of have the attribute of wings and all that stuff. And so just that like concept, just that idea, um, ended up being absolute. Um, I don’t want to say it just was very, very challenging to do that. Uh, given that the nature of, of NFTs are everything’s written on chain. It’s all metadata. Um, and when you want to, it’s like writing in pen on a piece of paper, you know, once it’s written, it’s written and it cost a lot of money to redo and there’s infrastructure changes, dev ops changes need to be done or asset pipeline. I mean, just to publish, uh, one of our, um, you know, on chain, uh, the NFTs, like you, you meant your, your Genopet. And then because it’s procedurally generated, we can’t just like, it’s not just like a pre done image that you’re seeing all these entities where it’s like, it’s not pre rendered image that you just. In our case, you fill out this questionnaire, we regenerated on a virtual computer, I’m on a virtual machine and then pop out an image and then push that to the chain and then update all the information. So just adding a tweak, like adding a wing or removing a wing, it means that we’ve got to rerun the entire process. Re-export all the images and they’re not just PNGs. These are like moving looping videos. So export is MP4 compress, optimize, push it to the chain and then, and then pay their transaction. Um, so that’s an example,

Jason: 12:53
tend to consequences from simple game

Ben: 12:56

Jason: 12:57

Jacob: 12:58
Yeah. I think that it’s really cool to see you guys work through some of those things, because even just developing process processes for that, they’re going to become crucial to building this movement as more games need features like that. Um, so if I’m understanding correctly, I meant to Gina. And then as I take my steps and I’m active in the real world, I level them up and they actually change in my wallet without me having to swap them into some sort of smart contract or something.

Ben: 13:28
Uh, yes, effectively in the game you would, um, level up, you would evolve, you’d see your Gina pet, uh, changing. Um, we have this concept of something being in the universe and not being in the universe. So. Um, it’s effectively, you can think of it as like staking an NFT, right? So you can have this, this Eugena pet in your wallet, but it doesn’t necessarily have to be active in the game. And so, uh, through our, our web portal, you would be able to port your Gino pet into the game, uh, which you would then experience on your phone. And then all of the things that you do to that Gino pet would happen in the game. And then once you bring it back into your wallet, then. So I think

Jason: 14:08
that it sounds like these being so personal to you as an individual player in the space, what does that look like? If I want to have multiple Genopets, or if I want to try and tweak or change a personality from the beginning, instead of, you know, starting with one, is this limited to like one Gino pet per person? Or could I farm them? Can I, can I, can I have more than.

Ben: 14:33
Yeah. Um, I, I definitely first off, uh, would love to have you involved in game testing because number one, first thing you said was you wanted to cheat the steps. Now you want to start farming, Genopets, do the perfect player profile or, Hey,

Jacob: 14:48
be careful. Be careful with that. Like I

Jason: 14:50
said, breaking

Ben: 14:51
things. Yes. It’s great. Um, the answer is yes. So, um, you, in the way we’re designing it, um, That. Yes. We want to have you create this really, um, close bond with your Geno pet and watch it growth through, through all the stages. And we have a whole story and we really wanna create that relationship. However, because we have battle, um, because, um, there’s, there’s performance to this, um, and they’re, uh, essentially are going to be different ways of, of, uh, designing the build of your pet for different, um, purposes. Um, we absolutely anticipate that players will be able to have as many junior facilities. But as far as the steps that are being tracked. So when you track steps and, and, uh, get energy, um, that energy that’s used to then upgrade and evolve and all that will only be done to one pet at a time. So you can have one active pet at a time, but you can own as Mazy one, you can swap them in and out. And like, today I want to train this one next day. I want to train that one, if you want to go to the multiple pet route. Um, but you know, there’s a sort of strategy in that, right? Uh, can I, do I want. One quickly or relatively quickly and focus on this one or, and then at the end of that, switch out and do another one, or do I want to like simultaneously build three or four at a time for different. I

Jacob: 16:08
think that’s a really cool solution. Um, I know that Jason is probably going to go buy a herd of goats, but build a bunch of Genopets, tie the phones to their goat legs and like send them out on his farm or something, uh, to, to build steps. But what I think what you’re doing is a really, really cool concept, especially. Kind of customizing this to one person. And I want to talk a little bit about that, that inspiration to build this move, to earn game. So you guys are doing something really, really unique, which is you’re actually incentivizing people to go out and be healthy and be. And get exercise. And the more I exercise, the more I get to build this, this Gino pet that represents me. And that’s a really personalized experience. I think that it’s really, really cool to explore what NFTs can do in that space for actually ending up paying people to go out on a run. For example, talk to me about the inspiration and where that idea came from when you just started building.

Ben: 17:09
Totally well started quite a long time ago. There’s a little bit of backstory, but, um, in 2018, my co-founder and I, Albert, um, we were working on lucky project and then we decided to go to the EOS hackathon. I don’t know if anyone, uh, any OJI crypto people, uh, know about EOS from 2017. It was the holiday. Um, as like most things crypto, every it’s, everything has its season in the sun. Um, but long story short, uh, we ended up winning that hackathon, uh, the global hackathon for that. And that was the project that we created and a hackathon was, uh, called gene O S um, and so. Uh, Gino S we wanted to create essentially a health data marketplace. Uh, we w we were, at that time, we were given a prompt, uh, create a project around this concept of, um, improving the relationship between, um, people, um, security and blockchain, and one of the biggest issues. Uh, I have been thinking about for a long time, two big issues was data sovereignty, privacy online, and how we can use blockchain solve that problem. And also, um, just, uh, universal resource income and like the sort of larger economic, um, paradigm. Falling into now with the rise of technology and automation and whatnot, the sort of income inequality, and, um, difficulty for people who are not at, um, really highly skilled positions or even sometimes skilled, uh, skilled labor are being replaced. And so this, this relationship between work and pay was becoming increasingly tenuous. We kind of saw these systemic problems in one. So you maybe if we could use blockchain to fix those. And so we came with this idea of, um, making it so that you could own your own genetic. Um, and if anyone medical researchers, pharmaceutical companies, anyone who wanted to, um, access that data for clinical studies, um, would have to pay you directly for that rather than you paying $120 to 23 and me so that they can turn around and make billions on your genetic data. And now you don’t own that data ever again. And we thought that was just totally wrong. Um, so we were kind of slamming our heads against a wall for about two years trying to build that out. Um, and, uh, but it turned out, you know, people. Number one didn’t really resonate. Didn’t even care so much about this concept data sovereignty. People say they do, but like when it comes to like making them like get onto a platform, it wasn’t an easy sell and it was just so much education involved. And so it was at that time in 2018 that I thought to myself, like, instead of trying to like, get at it with like, you can make money on your genetic code or you’ll, your data will be safe. Like, why don’t I just like, try not to even convince them that. Um, why don’t you just make a game? Well, I’ll just make it fun and people are going to want to do it anyway. And then I’ll just sneak in this end, by the way, I’m going to make it so that you can make money on genetic code. Um, it’s kind of like, you know, if you want to, your kid needs vegetables, but, um, you can’t, you got to just kind of sneak it in there. It’s good for you, but I’m not going to force you to down and make it cool and fun and sexy. So, so that’s where the, the original business idea of Genesis came from originally. Um, that’s why it’s called Genopets is because I wanted to make the Gino pet procedurally generated based on your DNA. Um, you would upload your DNA and we’d create your pet that. Um, and then from there as you exercise and feed the genome pet with your health data, that would essentially become a store of that data that you can then license out to, to other people, uh, to, to researchers. So on a business level, that’s where it all started. Um, and then it wasn’t until 2019 with the, you know, NFT summer that really started blowing off. Um, I remember, you know, we saw Zed running. We were like, oh my goodness. They’re making entities that have race horses. We could totally do genome bets. And that was the idea of like, let’s make this an NFT. Um, and then the rest is history, um, on a personal level, there’s personal stuff on that. Uh, but you know, essentially I just couldn’t think of anything. I had a moment in 2018 after, uh, you know, I’ve been doing. 15 years. Um, I’ve built like over a hundred, um, projects, uh, platforms. And I was always, you know, for some cool thing that does this or does that. Um, but I finally had a moment to choose like what I wanted to do. And I just imagined, uh, being on my deathbed and like, what would I regret not doing it? And, uh, I just thought like, oh, I could probably think of something just want to bring like a whole lot of joy into the world. Like what would be the most insane, joyful thing that people experience that I could do. Um, and this is what’s so cool,

Jason: 21:38
man. It’s, it’s crazy to hear other founders. Kind of inspiration and personal journey to get to where they’re at. And you can really tell when somebody is building something that they love and they have a real passion around it because it ties into that personal journey as well. Um, so in part that’s a huge reason that we started the NFT gaming podcast is to discover these stories and hear more about that. So thank you for sharing that with us. Uh, Ben it’s.

Ben: 22:06
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um, well, as you guys, you know, as you’re a founder as well, um, you know, when you starting a company is, is, uh, it’s trench warfare and yeah. And you, um, you, you put your body through a lot. You put your mind through a lot and, uh, and your emotions through a lot, you learn a lot of things about what it means to. Unhealthy very unhealthy. And honestly, like this whole game is really just me projecting onto the world of like, I need to be more healthy. So I’m going to make something that’s going to facilitate me being healthier. And I was having a really hard time, like trying to balance work and life and making money and being healthy. And it was like, seemed to be an impossible. Uh, balance. And so I figured if I just, if the obstacle is the way, so if I just make it so that my work is about making myself healthier, then maybe it will be helpful.

Jacob: 22:59
Yeah. As a startup founder, uh, during really stressful weeks, I know there’s been weeks where I just ate McDonald’s the entire week because it’s like fast and easy and. So having a Gino pet would incentivize me to not do that because my genome that I’d log on to my genome, that would just be like super overweight. It’s like your Geno pet can’t move it consumes double the energy. Ah,

Jason: 23:21
yeah. When you tie your, when you tie your wallet into those transactions and all of a sudden you can look at the on chain data and. Oh, yeah, by the way, you are buying McDonald’s and we translate that over to you

Ben: 23:33

Jason: 23:34
Oh man. So I’m curious, where is the game now? Is it, is it available to play? Can we, can we log on and try it out? Is this, uh, in, in alpha we’re where are you guys at? And the actual gameplay.

Ben: 23:48
Absolutely. Uh, we are in a closed beta, um, and we are continuing to iterate on features. We have a couple of phases that we’re rolling out. Um, and so currently we are in a state where you can totally join our way. And we will bring you guys in, so you can start experiencing what we have today. Um, where we’re at right now is we’ve got our bank button, got a leaderboard. We’ve got, um, our, our inventory management. Um, and we’re continuing to, uh, harden our logic around how those steps are tracked, making sure that, uh, we, uh, preclude any, uh, clever people that might immediately start taking advantage of that. So, um, make sure that our, our foundation is solid, um, energy system, um, is, is being implemented. Today. Um, and so, uh, closely following that. Oh, sorry, baby minting. Um, we did our, uh, habitat mint. We did our Genesis, uh, Juniper drop. Um, and we. R, um, yeah, we’re about to really staking. Um, and so a lot of infrastructural things that are happening both on the mobile side and on the, on the website, um, given that the game exists across both platforms, um, yeah, in a whole, whole S up coming. So we’re looking at around, um, late may, June, um, as, uh, our, our full like four core game loop. Uh, man, that’s

Jason: 25:10
always the, that’s always the scary moment in the podcast where your chief product officer. It’s saying, Hey, this is, I think when the games come be out,

Ben: 25:20
I remember it being in a suit in a

Jason: 25:23
CTO role. And you’re like, yeah, I think we’ll have that shit by here. And then you talk to your dev team

Ben: 25:28
later. No, no, no, you shouldn’t have said that. Yeah, you can go ahead. And, uh, uh, well, you’ll get a call from my, uh, from my CTO if that needs to be, uh, dealt with, but no. Um, and we just did a sprint planning and backlog grooming, like literally five minutes. We ended right before this call. Um, I’m very deep in the development process. Um, we have we’re, we’re working. Really, really, really hard. Um, and we have cleared a lot of the obstacles, um, and we are absolutely looking at, um, getting this

Jacob: 26:01
out of the street. Wow. You guys are like right on the cusp of just doing something incredible. And I’m really, really excited to see how that pans out and to be a part of what Genopets is going to be doing, going through. So congratulations to you guys. Um, I do want to touch on something that you talked about in one of your previous statements, when you’re talking about the game and kind of your idea, and you talked a little bit about sovereignty and ownership over your own data and how the blockchain can kind of like relate to that. Um, it’s really interesting to me to hear how you approach this idea of ownership within game assets, um, especially using NFTs and within genome.

Ben: 26:42
Yeah. Um, um, there’s a lot. Yeah, that’s a big

Jacob: 26:47
one to unpack, but just briefly

Ben: 26:52
the, yeah. Briefly. Well, okay. Kind of to cover foundations. Um, what I th the most, most groundbreaking thing about NFTs is the fact that. There’s rarity in a digital object and it’s not even necessarily rarity it’s there’s there’s um, there’s finiteness too. There’s a, there’s an existence of an object that is digital. Um, that can’t just, when I send you something, you don’t have a copy of what I have. It’s just a thing that exists on its own. Um, without, as a foundation, um, the, it, what it allows for is. All of the advantages of a physical object, almost all the advantages of the physical object in terms of how we value them. Um, but paired with all of the advantages of a digital entity being, um, essentially taking up no physical space and being able to instantly be moved from one place to another, to another, um, less before even getting to the whole sovereignty aspect of it. So, um, for me, any way that comes to, it gets me to think about. It’s suddenly makes it so that we feel that we own a whole lot more. It’s like I have so many, much more digital stuff than I do have physical stuff. Um, and I think, especially for our generation, like, this is what NFTs imply. It’s like, wow. I can actually probably have so much more of that. Form of matter of theme then I can otherwise, and, you know, especially with the way that we live our lives now, um, especially, you know, kind of taking it from a really macro perspective, you know, the world being how it is today, things are moving and changing so fast. You know, our generation has to deal with how dynamic everything is. It’s very hard to plan and like, no, you know, it’s, there’s a lot of hesitation around like, Buying a place or signing a two year lease because everything’s shifting all around. So this concept of being able to own things that are as dynamic and as nimble and as, um, mobile as you are, um, is, is really an important, I think, foundation of the concept of NFTs. Um, and so from there isn’t, as a matter, as a discussion around, um, sovereignty as a person being able to own a digital object. And what then the question is. Can a digital object be it can be infinitely more, um, classes of things than the physical things that we currently have. You know, you’re gonna have a chair, um, you’re gonna have a computer, a car, a house, you know, there’s only so many things that people strive for to have in the physical world. Everyone wants a car and a house, a nice bed, nice TV or whatever. Um, but there’s a limit to, it’s kind of like, and then you can get a yacht in a, in a plane. And then if you’re a billionaire, like a spaceship, but like within a digital world, I mean, there is no end to the amounts of creation that can happen, um, on, on just like art and things that you can, you can have that give you emotional joy. But beyond that, there’s also just like now all of the intangible things that make me valuable as a human being can now be digitally represented. So for example, um, your, um, genetics, um, It’s technically tangible, but, um, you know, still be represented that way. Um, and also, you know, your behavior, your patterns, your thoughts, your ideas, your relationships, you know, all kinds of things that make up your existence and your experience of the world can be representative. In the format of, uh, in the, in the realm of the digital. And, um, and to a large extent, all of that information, essentially information is what composes this data, uh, this, this object, um, is already being, um, re used as value by companies that you, that you get that data too. So I think NFTs provides a vehicle. For that value in the form of information to be stored that you can then own and you can choose and control who has access to it and how you can benefit from it. Um, I think we’re probably not even, I think most of the spaces and even beginning to really explore or think about that to, uh, to a really a medium, to low elevation, uh, level. Um, but I think there’s a lot to unpack there and I think. People should start thinking about it and think, and really start to form opinions around how they want their digital, um, being their digital entity, uh, to, to live in and.

Jacob: 31:32
And one of the things that I think that you touched on a little bit is the information is really the value. And, uh, as you were just talking through that, I kind of had this vision in my head of some of the intrinsic value. That’s maybe not even a monetary that people would want to buy, but that has value to you personally. Um, and I think about like my great grandfather’s watch, right? That. And pass down to me. Right? And there’s like the value there that obviously I couldn’t go sell that watch for as much value as it has to me. And then I think about this, this digital landscape and what we can do with this, you know, if, if my son had, was able to get a Gino pet upon my death, that was my genome pet. That was like the thing that I put life into an energy into, and time into growing. For my entire life. And maybe there’s some way to memorialize that Gino pet and you could kind of watch its evolution through my life and maybe there’s value there for, you know, generationally intrinsic value in the information that’s captured on the blockchain and this digital asset. I think that’s a really cool exploration. And like you said, just the beginning cusp of what this actually means for our world.

Ben: 32:42
Absolutely. Absolutely. Um, yeah, it’s funny to think that. I mean, technically our grandparents are the first generation in the history of humanity, um, that can have. It’s likeness or it’s information preserved for extensively eternally. Um, and I mean, just imagine if our generation had the ability, imagine our great, great, you know, 10 generations down, um, what it would be like to be them and be able to like go on a blockchain or just the internet and see moving full color, sound, pictures and images and video of the. At your age now, like there’s an impact across generations and like a sense of belonging, a sense of heritage that is only going to be possible because of this technology now. Um, and it really also starts opening a part of the mind as a technologist and as you know, people that are ultimately, you know, creating products to make things better, hopefully in some way, um, to start allowing us to think about products and, um, the ramifications of the things that we can. Across generations rather than just like the next five seconds. Dopamine hit, um, very important considerations to make, especially, uh, with, uh, technology, as powerful as blockchain. Uh, I would hope that we would all talk and think

Jason: 34:01
of well. And like you said earlier, it’s like writing on paper with ink and you have a moment to preserve something and make your imprint. But two. Correct. Those ink strokes means more ink strokes on top of it, you know, scratching it out or writing it over again. And so it almost shows a history of, you know, the decisions that you went through. And, and I think this is something that we’re going to see early on as we all explore the NFT space from art to collectables, to games and deeper utility. And this is where I’m curious as to your thoughts on. What do you think this does for gamers in particular or people who are playing, uh, Genopets and interacting with their new spiritual, Gino pet, uh, in a way that. Creates a sense of ownership that is beyond a traditional game developer, creating an asset that you kind of can rent slash use as long as you abide by their game rules. And then if you, you know, disobey that they rip it all back and some lawyers after you, what, what do you think that does to this, this idea of ownership and how do we redefine that for the next generation?

Ben: 35:18
That’s a really, you guys are asking, I didn’t know. I’m loving the questions you guys are asking. Um,

Jacob: 35:25
uh, I think we got it. He wasn’t expecting that one. It was deep.

Ben: 35:30
No, it wasn’t because I love having, this is exactly the kind of conversations I love to have. Um, I just never get to have them. And so it’s like, I’m like taken aback by the fact that I get an opportunity to actually have this conversation. Um, honestly, so the way I see it as. We’re using this kind of like casual term of sovereignty. Um, but for me, I think it comes down to this concept of relationship. Um, what I think creates value. Like this is one way to answer this question to me is, um, what makes me a sovereign individual and what makes us. No human is our ability to create meaning and through the relationships that we choose to create, um, and up until, and, and relationships. And this is getting really philosophical. So I apologize in advance if this is too deep, but table, um, is up until now. Digital objects are effectively. Um, you can copy them in their infinite. And so they’re essentially meaningless because I can make a billion, infinite number of copies of an MP3. So, but as humans, we are mortal, we are finite. And so when we, what makes relationships meaningful is the fact that they are, that they are finite. Um, so that I create this meaning because it’s. Um, and that’s what, when the more things and the more, the more breadth and depth, um, of things that I can apply and associate meaning with that I create, um, that’s more of me exercising my sovereignty. I think relationship building is the output of sovereignty. Um, one of I’ll put it that way. So using that as kind of the. Thesis. Um, I would say what that means for players, um, playing Genopets and having a pet, um, in the same way that, like, why do we have pets in real life? Um, why is that relationship meaningful? It’s because. There’s just that one pet and it is something I created a relationship with over time and it influences me and I influence it. And hopefully we do this in a way that’s mutually beneficial. Um, that we learned things from one another. We learned things about ourselves. We learn things about the world. Um, we become more patient, more, kind, more gentle. Um, also know how to set boundaries, you know, all the things that you can. That’s the results of a relationship, um, and its ultimate end, no matter what kind of relationship you create, um, ultimately the highest end of any relationship is that you learn some of these things. Um, and so. Getting really philosophical here, but that’s, um, what I think, um, the, the players, if I understand, remember your question properly, that the, the, what it means to be sovereign, um, as a player playing genotypes, is that you get an opportunity to exercise the creation of relationship with something that is designed to. Beneficial to you on, on my end. Um, and then it’s up to you to choose, to take it to its fullest extent

Jason: 38:45
on what I like about how you guys have designed this, uh, concept around gene and pets, uh, in its integration with the individual and kind of personal ownership from, from day one really is that as an individual, I get the opportunity to see a reflection or a ripple effect of my decision. Um, and take responsibility for that kind of throughout the lifetime of my interaction with a Geno pet. And that could be the decision of, Hey, it’s, it’s my first Gino pet. Like, you know, I’m learning this I’m, I’m, I’m kind of figuring it out for the first time and then have a little bit of fun and maybe I see the market’s going up and I, you know, sell that off. Somebody values it more than I do. And, you know, I suddenly started another Gino pet and maybe a couple of years later, I start to wrestle or, or, or kind of grapple with the fact that I don’t have my first one anymore. And now that first one is more valuable to me that maybe it is to somebody else who owns it on the market, but it’s also been changed or evolved or developed through kind of different people touching and influencing that over time. And, you know, I think that there’s a, there’s a lot here that, you know, we’re going to have to, we’re going to have to sit down and, and have some drinks and, and deeper conversation to go way into this. I love how you guys are thinking beyond just, you know, the next drop or this, uh, kind of monetization point once in time. And, um, and, and building something deeper and more rich, uh, that is anchored in individual ownership.

Ben: 40:22
Yeah, I think. What the advent of web three and NFTs is really causing the whole world to start to ask itself is what is valuable? What is value? Um, you know, a lot of people rightfully so are like, well, entities are a scam because, you know, there’s just artificial supply and demand. It’s like, yeah, that’s true. Um, and, and so if we predicate value entirely. On this because we’re, we’re trained, uh, indoctrinated and we, we live our lives in this economic system where we understand that value just means there’s something I have and it’s rare. And then, you know, but, um, we’re beginning to ask the question. We get the opportunity to ask the question of like maybe what makes something valuable, goes beyond, um, The economic, uh, monetary return of something. Um, I, I would like to, I would posit that that’s something that’s intuitively and fundamentally true, and we get to use ironically, one of the most DGN spaces and industries, this crazy novel digital technology, um, to explore this, this thing, that’s really, I think, profoundly human. Well,

Jacob: 41:33
I just want to say that this type of a conversation, I know we joked about it being really deep and philosophical, but this is what we believe is extremely important. And those questions that you’re saying is the world is being forced to ask itself what is ownership? And we felt that we had to ask ourselves that and wrestle with that. Um, and that’s one of the reasons why we started this podcast was to highlight. That exact philosophy and hopefully bring other people to start to make those, uh, make those decisions for themselves about what they think ownership is and getting involved in this space. And so these deep conversations, this is what we want to have because it highlights such an important piece of actually building these games and being a part. Early ecosystem here. And yes, there’s investments in yes, there’s money sometimes involved and you can earn money and you can lose money. But at its core, so much of this just boils down to us as humans, being able to have the choice and being able to interact with things that we own in a digital space. Like you said, infinitely more valuable, even possibly than some of the physical things, because there’s so many possibilities, there’s so much creativity that can go in.

Jason: 42:43
Absolutely. So Ben, as we kind of wrap up here and we’re closing this out, um, I know that there’s a lot of listeners who are listening to this episode in particular and, uh, really excited to dive in more into, you know, what is, do you know, pets? How do I get involved? What does it look like to, um, you know, w when it comes out of the closed beta to, to get involved with Genopets, where should they start? Where should they go next? As they listen to.

Ben: 43:12
Absolutely. Um, three simple places in enjoy discourse, the fastest, easiest, uh, just discord Gigi slash Gino bets. And then you can go to our medium, which is Genopets is spelled G E N O P E T S uh, and then from there is also our Twitter. So just search @Genopets on Twitter, and you’ll find us there. And a one sentence answer of what Genopets is. Uh, it’s a pet you take care of by taking care of.

Jacob: 43:44
Well, thank you so much, Ben, for joining us today and giving us some insight into not only what you’re building with Genopets, but also the philosophy behind why it’s so important that people get involved in this movement. Um, and so I will go ahead and link all of those. In the description down below in this episode, for those that are listening, wherever descriptions are available. But definitely if you’re interested, you should go check out all of the official Genopets channels for more information regarding Genopets. And if you’re listening to this for the very first time, we want to thank again, our StockTwits presenting sponsor and make sure you go to. Previous episodes of the NFT gaming podcast, where we continue to interview different games, building this new play to earn and NFT gaming movement. We’ll have another episode in a week and a half bi-weekly releases. So come back for that episode. We’re excited to have you. Thanks for listening to this episode. Thank you again, Ben, for telling us a little bit more about Genopets.

About The NFT Gaming Podcast

The NFT Gaming Podcast features developers building the next generation of gaming: play-to-earn NFT games. In this podcast, the team from Duo interviews key contributors to the NFT gaming movement across a multitude of blockchains. Our goal is to help bring clarity to the topic of NFT gaming, build credibility for new and existing projects, and help gamers across different blockchains find new NFT games to play. Season 1 presented by Stocktwits.

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Duo is the an NFT game built on Cardano where you match funny prompts & punchlines to earn crypto & NFTs!

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